Friday, 1 June 2007

Link added: TrulySecular

The list of Darcy's most-visited blogs keeps expanding. Today he added TrulySecular, a sentiment he shares. The site is blogged from India, which probably has more religions than any country other than the United States.


Anonymous said...

Dear Darcy alla Turca, I want to compliment you for your wonderful blog and thank you for the links. I'd like to post a reaction on the latest article on 'TrulySecular' called,'End of Turkish dream'. Anonymous posts are not allowed there, so I post it here.

I saw that you didn't agree with the blog entry. I didn't either, but I wanted to comment on a particular element only: the claim that an Islamic Turkey will reduce the chance of a Kurdish separatism.

In my view, if Turkey strengthens its laicism further, and allows linguistic and cultural rights minorities, it would be an exemplary state for the West, and the Kurdish people will have no reason to separate and the Europe will find no legitimacy to promote that either.

However, an islamic Turkey, will threaten Kurdish people who are regarded as 'gavurs' by the islamists who will have become the ruling class then. The West will have no reservation in promoting Kurdish independence in such a country.
A neo-islamic Turkey won't have the prestige, cultural and intellectual level of Ottoman Turkey, but will be like colonial Middle East; a medieaval country run by ignorant fascists and sharia.

Is THIS the natural state for Turkey?

Darcy alla turca said...

Dear anon, thank you for your kind words. As to what the natural state for Turkey is, only the Turks can decide.

Nihat said...

I don't understand these theories about Kurds. Islamists regard them as 'gavurs'? I'm sorry but where does that come from? I am no Islamist of any kind, but could it be that, while we secular Turks are focusing on the separatism of PKK, the Islamists are highlighting the anti-religion nature of the PKK's Marxist-Leninist origins. Both views would indeed hold considerable water about PKK. But, again, what does that have anything to do with Kurds in general? I just don't believe Kurds differ from us Turks in regards to religiosity. Islamic Turkey would not threaten a randomly selected Kurd any more than it would me.

And, Nihat likes Darcy's blog despite the annoying comment moderation thing. He thinks it's a pretty good one.

Darcy alla turca said...

Darcy thanks Nihat for the kind words. Come again soon, and come often. As for the comment moderation - I expected to get (and have got) some fairly strange comments on my articles, so I regret to say that it will be staying. I hope its not too much of an inconvenience.

Anonymous said...

Dear Nihat,

Of course, I wasn't referring to PKK, but to our dear Turkish citizens. They're just like us, we don't make a difference (I hope!)
But as anyone who doesn't adhere to an Arabic-type lifestyle is a gavur for the hypocritical and fascist islamist, who are the ruling class in the hypothetical world of the original article, the Kurds who usually don't subscribe to such a lifestyle and adhere to Kemalist ideals and 'unorthodox ways' will be stigmatized as gavurs, in much a similar fashion Izmirians are already stigmatized as such by the islamist ruling party.

I believe this is how an islamist Turkey will polarize the society.
Kurds will reject en masse the imposed sharia! Admittedly there's a certain West-East polarization in the country, but let's not forget many Kurds live in the West in peace. Of course this is my humble opinion based on limited view, but which I believe is much closer to reality then that of the Indian (with all due respect) author of the original article.

Perhaps you may not agree and perhaps I may be wrong, (truth is more important then my being right or wrong) but at least now I hope you understand my claim.

Nihat said...

Anonymous, okay, I see what you're saying. I also read similar things said by a certain Megalommatis (at I don't thing I agree though.

Firstly, Islamists' one claim re: Kurdish issue is (has been, and not without historical merit) that Islam would be a uniting factor, common denominator. I don't see why they would want to stigmatize, exclude, get rid of... Kurds.

Secondly, I have doubts about the claim that "the Kurds [...] usually don't subscribe to such a lifestyle and adhere to Kemalist ideals and 'unorthodox ways'." The second subclaim "adherence to Kemalist ideals" is particularly shaky (if so, why do we have problems now?). You may be talking about Alevi Kurds, but aren't majority Turkish Kurds Sunni? And mostly devoutly so? That Megalommatis highlights your first subclaim about lifestyle by saying "Kurds like prostitutes!" Some funny guy...

Anyways, I don't know southeast too well. If you do, tell us more. If you don't, you may want to test your claims with Kurds in your region.

In my opinion, if Islamists are going to cause a worsening in the Kurdish issue (should this ideology come to dominate Turkey further), this may be through Kurdish nationalists' desire to seize the window of opportunity that will open up for them in the international political theatre. Turkey turning Islamist, shedding secularism, they may just want to grab and run with the secular democracy "for us" idea. I don't know, maybe, this is what you were saying.

Anonymous said...

I say majority Kurds are secular, but you claim the opposite.

Anyway, maybe this question isn't the most pertinent to ask. There're the separatist Kurds, but then most aren't. Those that are, whether Islamist or not, want the end of our country in either case!

Is there really ethnical division in the Western cities?

Or isn't the division the one that occurs between Islamists and seculars, whatever their background?

The Islamists are like invaders, attack our regime, our civilization and the native cultures and faiths of this land. They want to take over our country with their alien ideology from Arabia!

Seculars are already unified!
Weren't there Kurds in the mass demonstrations for the Republic?
Aren't there Kurds in my cousin's volleyball club? (Are these even questions we ask ourselves, no because we assume we're one!) What is sure the islamists aren't there; they are those who were occupied to spit on her when she played in Afyon because of her sportive attire! Did Kurds ever spit on anyone of my family because they look Turkic?

Anonymous said...

So the Islamist's anti-separatist argument is fake. And so is the claim in the original article. The latter ignores the many Kurds in the West enjoying the freedom of Kemalist Turkey!

Seculars are already unified with the Kurds. Of course there’re the separatists, but if Islam unifies, then why shouldn't it be the situation right now already? Most of us are Muslim anyway.
What will an Islamist regime change? The Imposed sharia will change the mind of separatists?

(Of topic: Even if this works, do we want to pay such high a price? To sacrifice Turkey for 'West Arabia' or something because of separatists?
But it won't even work! Why take example of the Arabic World??? What can they teach us other that Atatürk was right to choose the path of civilization?)

As for your scenario in your last paragraph, that is exactly what I mean, with the exception that I assumed most Kurds are secular, so I didn't imagine the opportunism of islamist Kurds who'd side with seculars!